Tuesday, December 20, 2005

Dover, PA: ID Trial Ruling

December 20, 2005

Judge rules for the Plaintiffs! Hallefuckinglujah! Personally, I didn't expect anything else, but good news is good news, no matter how well anticipated.

Screw you, Discovery Institute. Go peddle your pseudo-scientific nonsense somewhere else.

And if you do, we'll look forward to seeing you in court.

76 comments:

Lily said...

"Teach the controversy". Wow,was that invented by the poeple who coined "don't ask, don't tell"???
Well, I don't have a problem with "teaching controversy" but why start and stop there? Why not teach about other "controversial" things- like the legality of their war, what constitutes genocide, what constitutes a "civil right" nowadays.... yes, please also teach the controversy about teaching "values" HYPOTHETICALLY.
Now kids, do as I say, not as I do!
And by the way your grades and hard work to LEARN creationism OR evolution are a waste because we do not care what you know when you graduate- and the less you know about critical thinking, the better anyway! Better you think the GAP-dressed stork brought you from Wal-Mart in its Hummer.
Teach students that adults will flip out about where we came from, but don't give a SHIT about where civilization is going. That this world "created" has become the cesspool for humanity.
They 'respect' intelligent design but clearly feel that the design should be fucked with as much as possible! And ya gotta love a god that gave us plutonium...its like intelligent design includes a flea collar around the world....How about we teach IRONIC DESIGN????

Geo_Chick said...

The thing is if these kids ever want to get into a decent college they have to have learned real science. Honestly most of em have a hard enough time getting it without taking time out to add another 'theory'. Did you hear about the recent case where a christian school that taught only 'intelligent design' had their students denied entry into UC schools? My husband is a professor and he was talking to a teacher who moved to CA from Kansas. She said that the church in her town told the kids to put their heads down on their desks and cover their ears while evolution was being taught. Wouldn't want your little ones getting any ideas in their heads.


I must add, as a geologist I am convinced of evolution, but you can't give birth and hold your baby in you arms without having some belief in a higher power.

Lily said...

Yes- I heard some bits and pieces about schools and that stance but have not gotten settled down to research this issue. I did hear an interview about raising money to offer support to private universities that will have anti-Darwin faculty. Thats the way these battles are fought, of course. They run their message campaign then raise money to infiltrate institutions of all sorts. They will knowingly go after the universities that need funding, and buy a way in for their ilk.
I have to get more up to speed on this- I read about the Dover case and others, but have not reviewed much as far as their 'strategy' beyond.

Cantankerous Bitch said...

Lily,
The Talk Origins Archive (on my blogroll) is my personal favorite as a resource. It is, however, a time consuming read. Tackle it on a morning where you've a fresh head, strong coffee, and enough patience not to want to reach through the screen and strangle people.

You raise a good point about a synopsis source though, so when I find more, I'll drop in a post about them.

Bill Ziemer said...

I am convinced that the real reason biology, and not say physics, has these people in an uproar is that evolution is a direct broadside against the "humans are God's special creation" idea. The religious community is right to fight this idea. It goes to the core of their belief system; that biology may explain behavior is anathema. Even Darwin wrestled with the conclusions of his observations; before the Beagle trip he was studying to be a deacon. He also delayed publishing his findings as not to upset his devout wife. He only relented when another scientist was about to publish related work.

Lily said...

And one can only speculate on how many 'biological' explanations are out there that they would have us suppress- everything from questioning monogamy to bisexuality... one of the most fascinating things I ever read was a book on the biology of babies and behavior- WHY they do what they do and the physiological bases. Few attempt such efforts on adult behavior! After all, what would happen if it was concluded- soundly- that there is a natural reason for adultery, or some other sin????

les said...

Re the U. Cal. matter--the decision was to not recognize credits for some science courses taught at some christian schools, as meeting the univ. entrance requirements; any of those kids can take another course, and qualify. The "unrecognized" courses used text books that said, among other things, that whenever science conflicted with the bible, you have to believe the bible. Naturally, the christian schools are screaming discrimination, and have sued the UC system.
Sheesh. Can't I at least have a real word to access comments?

Cantankerous Bitch said...

Les,
I lost you on that last sentence. Huh?

les said...

Sorry; the last sentence was a lame comment on my near-failure to properly type the nonsense string of letters in order to post the comment. In other words, you lost me because there was nothing to find.

Cantankerous Bitch said...

For what it's worth, sorry for the hassle. I know it's a pain, but the spam is worse. Ugh.

Meteor Blades said...

...and enough patience not to want to reach through the screen and strangle people.

I need that all the time, not merely on this subject. So far, so good.

Since the 1970s, when the Discovery Institute was still publicly calling it "creationism," I've been strongly of the view that we should teach comparative religion at about 5th grade, with perhaps a refresher semester in 10th.

To give students a full understanding of creationism, the basic curriculum can focus on 20 "creators": Ama-terasu, Nyokopon, Wotan, Sky Woman, Gaea, KSng, Yahweh, Ranginui and Papatūānuku, Juok, Hwan-ung, Pangu, Amen-Re, Apsu and Tiamat, Father of All Spirits and Sun Mother, Brahma, Tu-chai-pai, Pele, Unkulunkulu, Abassi, and Raven.

Teachers can explain how these creators used clay or urine to make people, how humans popped out of the ground or the sea or the wombs of goddesses or the heads of gods, how seeds became fish, how an obsidian knife impregnated a goddess and made the moon, how a bird created dry land, and a crow flew down the devil's throat to stop him from swallowing the sun.

Then, they can all go to biology class and learn science.

RTSO said...

It is sad that so many people think that the mention of ID in the classroom is essentially harmless. The opinion page of the York Daily Record confirms this.

This is a fight that must be won. Either way, it is sure to make its was to SCOTUS. Let's hope Roberts is as open-minded as he seemed to be during confirmation hearings.

RTSO said...

Oops. "Was" = "way" above. duh.I guess my comment was not designed very intelligently. :-)

Cantankerous Bitch said...

MB,
Delighted to see I'm not the only one advocating comparitive religion courses. You'd think that if the right had the sense of a melon, this is what they'd demand. It would enable them to slip their creationsim tales into the curriculum and with nary a peep of opposition. But of course, such advocacy would counter their true purpose - the indoctrination of our kids to Judeo Christian mythology to the exclusion of all else. They're no more interested in making sure Odin gets classroom exposure than they are in putting Vishnu on the currency.
What frustrates me most is that much of the general public still buys the BS that "ID isn't about religion". Yeah, ok. By the same standard, politics isn't about power either. /snort

Cantankerous Bitch said...

RTSO,
This debate is yet another reason to be suspicious of Roberts and now, Meiers.
This President has lost the benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned, and it's all I can do not to assign nefarious intent to every area of ambiguity.
I also believe that the folks at Discovery Institute have planned their assault down to their closing arguments to SCOTUS. Dover is just the beginning.
To the extent that either Robert or Meiers are sympathetic with the ID movement, they have the potential to be the undoing of American science.

Meteor Blades said...

"Child abuse"! I love it. Thanks for this coverage.

Cantankerous Bitch said...

Wasn't that great?? I would have LOVED to see the expressions of the school board members in attendance.
This issue brings out the worst of pandering to political correctness in that too few people are willing to call these folks on their collective idiocy. I'm delighted that the prosecution witnesses have been as frank as they have.

I'll post transcript tidbits when they become available.

Lily said...

Thank you for the updates, I tend to vomit when I try to read this stuff for any length of time.
Figured you were following it despite the bipolar tendencies of this blog.

les said...

Huzzah! Of course, he was an activist judge censoring scientists and preventing the young'uns from following their interest in ID. I know, 'cause the Discovery Institute said so.

Hey, anybody wanna dance?!!

Cantankerous Bitch said...

:::fires up disco ball:::

Let's go, baby

Geo_Chick said...

Hey CB good to see you back around. How is the visit going? Thanks for the update on this. I am SO glad they got that activist liberal nutjob judge with an agenda against god ;-)

musafir said...

A few more years of Bush and there would be few judges left in our judicial system who are free from the wave of religiosity sweeping over our land. Sodden thought.

Lew Scannon said...

I don't know, but I think the fact that Bush still has supporters is all the evidence I need against "Intelligent design".

Bill Ziemer said...

One big change was the local conservative paper referred to ID as a "concept" now, not a theory. ABC news now refers to ID as a "notion". The sheen of respectability that Bush gave it is definitely off.

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